American History

» _Boanerges_ - All of us MUST take responsibility

In response to All of us MUST take responsibility posted by pink101:
Your quote from Greg Evenson gives you a good reason why I left the organized church. It has nothing to offer other than bondage to a hierarchy as noted in your last paragraph. Too bad. They will bring themselves down.

I thought it important to include that quote, as I agree that the church as a whole has nothing to offer.... That is not to take away from the fact that many "churches" hold to what is important though.....

the bible is clear that in the latter days, the church will cease to become anything of use... I agree with that. In fact, the Rapture is in effect, a judgment upon the church....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Brian Tubbs - Pastors?

In response to All of us MUST take responsibility posted by _Boanerges_:

Wendell, if I read you correctly, pastors have a responsibility to stand up in their pulpits and preach against the "corruption" of the Bush administration and charge that administration with complicity in the 9/11 tragedy. If they don't, then that means they have "lost their savor" and "fear the IRS more than God."

As a pastor, my job is to "preach the Word" and NOT preach politics. Do I periodically address moral issues that are also addressed in the political arena? Of course. But I do not and will not politicize the pulpit. I am supposed to preach the Bible, not preach 9/11 conspiracy theories.

My pulpit is neither pro-George W. Bush or anti-George W. Bush. It's neither Republican nor Democrat. It's a pulpit used to preach the Word of God. I've got folks in my church that want guidance on how to live better lives, draw closer to God in prayer, bring healing to their marriages, etc. I am not going to do a sermon on how the World Trade Center was allegedly demolitioned and the planes were diverted, etc., etc.

My obligation is to "preach the Word" (as in the Word of God - the Bible). That is what I will continue to do.

» Brian Tubbs - Ecclesiastes Discussion

In response to Ecclesiastes Discussion posted by _Boanerges_:
...I have no interest to re-join those discussions..."
This statement comes off as a bit dismissive and condescending. Like "I don't want to be bothered with you people anymore, but I still love ya." Thanks, but...good grief.

Anyway, I guess we should bring this discussion back to 9/11. We are over in American History now. I see we're getting things going again on the Ecclesiastes discussion.

» Brian Tubbs - Before 9/11

Wendell, Pink, Migisi, whoever...

Were there terrorist attacks launched against the United States by FOREIGN terrorist organizations before George W. Bush and 9/11/01?

or were those part of a US government conspiracy also?

» _Boanerges_ - Pastors?

In response to Pastors? posted by BrianTubbs:
Wendell, if I read you correctly, pastors have a responsibility to stand up in their pulpits and preach against the "corruption" of the Bush administration and charge that administration with complicity in the 9/11 tragedy.

yes... and no... I would say that the first part of your statement is good.. Its not just the "Bush" admin. that is the problem, as politics is politics, and all are to blame.... So yes, preach against corruption, but its not necessarily important to preach against "a person"....

If they don't, then that means they have "lost their savor" and "fear the IRS more than God."

I believe the reply has more to do with "feel good christianity" that is currently the foundation of the newly formed church of the 21str century i.e, the 'purpose driven church....

As a pastor, my job is to "preach the Word" and NOT preach politics.

First off, as a fellow Christian myself, then your position of authorty is repsected, in myt opinion. Meaning that, even though you are not "my pastor" you are a pastor and for that, deserve the authority God has placed... Which I respect... and do follow... That is to say, as a leader of God's people, I will take back seat to such leadership, and will gladly and humbly allow that leader to do that which God has gifted him or her with...

Now, with that said, as a fellow member in the "body of Christ" I do believe that, at least, not in front of the congregation, but in private, the leadership should listen to those who are gifted in other areas, such as discernment, etc.. Otherwise, our church becomes useless...

Now.. with that said, politics is part of life. I see no reason why it cannot be preached in general terms, in its appropriate place. You spoke of JV Mcgee.. He most certaily spoke out against political corruption, and as well, named names..... I believe this takes courage and is responsible, not as a "political agenda" but as - what is right...

Do I periodically address moral issues that are also addressed in the political arena? Of course. But I do not and will not politicize the pulpit.

I believe both can be accomplished with the proper discernment....

I am supposed to preach the Bible, not preach 9/11 conspiracy theories.

True. However, the "conspiracy" is no longer a "theory" but a plain and simple fact.

My pulpit is neither pro-George W. Bush or anti-George W. Bush. It's neither Republican nor Democrat. It's a pulpit used to preach the Word of God.

To which, I agree.. and have basically said so above....

I've got folks in my church that want guidance on how to live better lives, draw closer to God in prayer, bring healing to their marriages, etc.

I agree...

I am not going to do a sermon on how the World Trade Center was allegedly demolitioned and the planes were diverted, etc., etc.

I know, Brian... that is my job... And because of that, releases you from taking "political positions".. but, like Boenhoffer(sp) in his day, we need to stand up to what is right, and what is wrong. All members in our body have their positions....

My obligation is to "preach the Word" (as in the Word of God - the Bible). That is what I will continue to do.

I would hope that you do. The church (corporate) cannot afford to lose men with such values, courage and the desire to do that which is right...

We stand in a crossroads.. no doubt about it... These are going to be daring and trying times.....

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - Ecclesiastes Discussion

In response to Ecclesiastes Discussion posted by BrianTubbs:
This statement comes off as a bit dismissive and condescending. Like "I don't want to be bothered with you people anymore, but I still love ya." Thanks, but...good grief.

it very well might, Brian, if you take them "all at once"... but there are some of us, like myself, who see these discussions - as they develop. The excuse (even though it is a truth) "I did not see that because of the lack of time" is not actually sufficient, because, in essence, that was my complaint. The lack of discernment due to being hurried... (but, fear not, all is well....)

Anyway, I guess we should bring this discussion back to 9/11. We are over in American History now. I see we're getting things going again on the Ecclesiastes discussion.

yes... all is well and in its proper place. No harm done.. Mistakes and mishaps happen... its part of life...Hopefully, you will find me to be a reasonable man and can adjust accordingly...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» _Boanerges_ - Before 9/11

In response to Before 9/11 posted by BrianTubbs:
Were there terrorist attacks launched against the United States by FOREIGN terrorist organizations before George W. Bush and 9/11/01?

Yes...

or were those part of a US government conspiracy also?

and.. yes...

"Terror" is basically "political" and its intentions are driven towards that purpose.. Which is why we have [politicians] and [diplomats]..... both are seperate jobs and both are needed - for the obvious reasons...

-- posted by _Boanerges_

» Brian Tubbs - Before 9/11

In response to Before 9/11 posted by _Boanerges_:

Okay, I'm not sure I understand your second answer. Let's take the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. Was that orchestrated by the Clinton administraton or by Dick "Darth Vader" Cheney diabolically plotting in the offices of Haliburton?

I can accept that corrupt opportunists have taken advantage of the War on Terror for their own purposes. Only an idiot would deny this. There have been profiteers in EVERY war. But to argue that the entire thing has been ginned up...well, that's a bit of a stretch.

» pink101 - Before 9/11

In response to Before 9/11 posted by BrianTubbs:
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I never said that the attacks were part of a government conspiracy--that's Wendell belief. He may be right; but, I cannot take a position.
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My position on the attack is that those towers would still be standing if it weren't for cronnyism and the gross ineptitude and personal greed of FBI people who put their careers ahead of the United States of America. I've given my sources.
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#1. http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Cross-Penet...
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#2. http://www.amazon.com/United-States-Geor...
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Check out the reviews.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Reserve comment

In response to Before 9/11 posted by pink101:

Pink, I will reserve and defer comments on what went wrong WITHIN the US government to allow for 9/11. I know there were breakdowns in our intelligence and investigations. That things were overlooked. Slipped through the cracks, etc. But I'm sure I'm not as knowledgeable on that aspect as others, probably including yourself.

I have, however, studied the debate on the "conspiracy" angle - the idea that the US government somehow masterminded the terrorist attacks themselves.

As a parallel example, I feel qualified to debate against anyone who would charge that President FDR knew the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbor and that he deliberately jeopardized and sacrificed the lives of those killed in Oahu in order to get the US into World War II. I'm pretty knowledgeable about that debate, but...

I am not AS knowledgeable about the specific investigations concerning Admiral Kimmel and General Short on Pearl Harbor's preparedness for hostilities.

Bottom line...I'll defend the institutional integrity and patriotic loyalty of the US government. I'm not prepared to argue for its competence.