American History

» pink101 - Both Posts

In response to Socialism posted by BrianTubbs:
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Both of these posts, the one referencing Madison and the one on socialism totally ignore the main factor of influence in society--the media.
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By medfia, I dont' mean to only identify the press; but, every form of communicaiton within our society. In fact, some communications scholars point up the idea that culture--itself--is the media in which we swim so to speak. It is to us like water is to fish. It is how we get our idea of who it is that we are.
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Who, then, controls the media controls what we think and who we are. Marx and Engels were cream puffs when it came to understanding society. And, your thumbnail explanations--good--only point up the main stream explanations we get through our media. The movie Migisi recommended, Bob Roberts, is a good example. I will get, The Pursuit of Happyness, when I take Bob Roberts back.
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You are undoubtedly familiar with the knee line in a graph. The graph line goes along with a small unward incline until it reaches a place where it turns sharply upward--that's the knee line. What happens with capitalism is that the "powers that be" gradually gain control over the media and--THEN--bam, bam!, they get total control. That is happening right now with the corporate media.
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Your argument for capitalism and anti-socialism sounds more anti-democratic than it does anything else.
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So, it really looks like your displeasure with Zinn is political. You apparently are opposed to democracy as a way of government? You don't think the People can make good decisions? Is that it?
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Media

In response to Both Posts posted by pink101:

I'm well aware of the power of communciation in our culture and society. And I understand your broad definition of the media, which is appropriate to your context here. However, the media is NOT anywhere near as centralized as you suggest. It's much more diverse than you give it credit, and there are a multitude of voices and perspectives out there. You've got this monolithic media machine working in some conspiratorial way to hypnotize the American people as if they are "Stepford Citizens." Sorry. That's too much of an exaggeration.

» Brian Tubbs - People and Democracy

In response to Both Posts posted by pink101:

Your argument for capitalism and anti-socialism sounds more anti-democratic than it does anything else.
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So, it really looks like your displeasure with Zinn is political. You apparently are opposed to democracy as a way of government? You don't think the People can make good decisions? Is that it?

I just don't get it. How in the world do you get that out of what I'm saying.

Please show me ONE poll or ONE national election in which the American people have chosen socialism. Go ahead. I'll wait.

» pink101 - Media

In response to Media posted by BrianTubbs:
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Well, I wish I had the time to respond to your comments as fully as I would like.
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Media or medium, nouns meaning the "thing" in which communication is transmitted. In the sense that culture is the media or medium through which we get ALL of the information that makes us who it is that we are and are coming to be. Culture--itself--is the medium in which we exist. Culture is to us as water is to fish--without it we do not exist.
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The fields of communications studies are all about our identities. They represent the broadest fields of inquiry of all. Nature, itself, communicates with us and who we are and what we express impinges back on nature.
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Politics--you know full well--is a science. Within its purviews human beings vie for power over others. That some different groups seek to promote their special interests means that the interactions of competition are brought into play. We compete with each other to achieve our relative goals. Presently, there is a great focus on the idea of winning and losing. We win--they lose, etc, ad finitum. You know all that gruff as well as anyone. Money talks, Brian. The first thing politician learn is to follow the money.
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There are various perspectives for which time lines can be set up. The longest time line is the one about class struggle--the dialectics of materialism. It's not the only struggle; but, it is a long one. Marx and Engels got caught up in that one and developed their ideas of communism around it. That's a long story. And, we have seen--pretty much--that some men being what they are, powerful forces eventually use force to subdue the greater masses of society. That fact has far less to do with political and economic systems than it has to do with human nature as it is developed. King of the mountain. We played in on piles of snow when we were kids.
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The answer to all these problems is more related to education than it is to anything else. We cannot depend on the goodness of one group of one group over another. Sooner or later those factions you spoke of come face to face with the power they have gathered unto themselves and WHAMMO! A new Hitler makes the scene. Maybe he even started out with the best of motives; but, power seduces him.
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Our answers--I believe--are found in an enlightened democracy. So--for starters--that enlightenment must involve an understanding. Thinking of the word, understanding, we quickly see that it means that on which we stand. And, what we stand on is our history.
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Let me put it to you, Brian. Of all the great and wonderful things that can be said about George Washington, we cannot build our life on his existence. But, we can learn about our roots using the perspectives of what it was that we came out of. That's what keeps the Jewish people alive as Jews as far as I can see. They have built their understandings on a group of holidays each one of which represents a building block of their social identity. But, what about Americans? What is it upon which we have built our identity--some men like James Madison? Sure, he was a great man from Virginia if I'm not mistaken--one of my heroes. But, what does the ordinary man know of deep political thinkers? Not squat. They do know what it means to struggle to make ends meet. So, there is a way to teach them history from their own perspective.
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It's freaking easy to see that the present situation is all about the rich getting richer and the middle class getting squeezed out and the lower class growing larger. In other words, the rich and the poor. There's a perspective for you.
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When we talk about living, we don't usually expect things to be pure and perfect. We expect things to be more practical. There is a practical way to look at the economy. Didn't McKinley support high tariffs? Wouldn't high tariffs protect American workers? But, they wouldn't do much for the multinationals would they? And, illegal immigrants? Aren't they a lot like slaves? And, wouldn't a wall between the U.S.A. and Mexico keep the slaves in the states?
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????
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The Thematic Approach, huh? Yeah. That would work. It's getting to be popular you say? That's good.

-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - In Plainer Words

In response to Media posted by pink101:
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In plainer words, culture communicates reality to us.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - In Plainer Words

In response to In Plainer Words posted by pink101:

And you seem to be saying that, because of the power of Big Business over culture (or at least the vehicles of communication within our culture), the People are unable to think the way they should, to reason the way they should, etc. That if they could, they would choose socialism over capitalism. Indeed, it's imperative that we make that choice FOR them, so we can break the power of the Big Business. That seems to be what you're saying.

» pink101 - No, You're Wrong

In response to In Plainer Words posted by BrianTubbs:
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No, you're wrong there, Brian.
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The fact of the matter is that I believe the only choice leaders should make for the public involves education. Everyone should be brought on board and made as aware of what is going on as possible. Keeping people in the dark is a basic evil. Once the electorate is informed, they can make their own choices wisely.
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I think there is a modicum of socialist principles that should be imposed on society regarding education, health care, and the economy. Eugene Debs' concept of economic justice that brought us social security was a giant leap forward for society. The idea that claims capitalism is the better system because, for example, it engenders competition is nothing more that propaganda. Socialism can be organized to do the same thing. It all depends on how people are educated to be. Even so, I think there are some great ideas in capitalism that should be brought to the forefront. But, capitalism, pure and simple, just doesn't exist. The ideas of individual, private, corporate, and public enterprise enter into the picture and have much to do with anyone's ability to climb up the social strata. You have to know that as well. We do not honor individual enterprise in our legal system. The economy is such that bigger is more powerful. Why, otherwise, would the big boys be buying each other up?
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Money is doing the talking in our capitalistic system and China has got a handle on the money. Capitalism is bringing us into sujbection. You can see it coming if you open your eyes and look at the "made in" on the things you buy--even pet food. Do you know about the milk that is imported from China, the pork, and other food stuffs? Is China an expansionist power with imperialist goals?
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It does appear that you respect Zinn more than it appeared you said you did at the onset of this thread.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Howard Zinn Interview

Pink, you HAVE to go to these links and read the transcript of this interview that Dennis Prager (a conservative columnist and talk show host) did with Zinn. It's a very fair, cordial dialogue. I found it VERY interesting. You need to read it.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Denni...

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Denni...

» Brian Tubbs - Daniel Flynn on Howard Zinn

Read this critique of Mr. Zinn carefully. Skim through the introductory paragraphs, if you want, but read through the point-by-point critique of Zinn's book that follows. Mr. Flynn is a conservative author, so you probably won't find much common ground with him, but......consider what he has to say nonetheless.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Pri...

» pink101 - Daniel Flynn on Howard Zinn

In response to Daniel Flynn on Howard Zinn posted by BrianTubbs:
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I read some and skimmed some; but, I went through all the stuff you provided.
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It looks like you belong to a forceful faction in American society bent on promoting its narrowly subjective view of reality. Once anyone accepts that view, they are almost forced to discount anything to the contrary. It practices the strategy of divisiveness and THAT is part of what is wrong with your thinking on these important subjects.
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I don't know--is Zinn a Marxist because he paints a picture of the eternal struggle between the haves and the have nots? Is that what makes a person a communist? I can think of more reasons to discount Marx than the dialecticals of materialist evolution. Juveniles are rallied around the kind of flag waving thinking that is provided by Praeger and Flynn in their bombastic handling of Zinn. We will never settle anything with anti-intellectuals like these two hotshots. Their entire purpose is to destroy any one who doesn't get in line with them. If you follow their lead, then you must not allow anything worthwhile to ever be discovered in or to come out of Zinn or the Left whatsoever. Their point is to divide the good guys from the bad guys. On which side are you? Duhhhh. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see through these two.
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-- posted by pink101