American History

» pink101 - Old Hickory

In response to Jefferson posted by JohnCrandall:

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Old Hickory upset the status quo with his ideas about popular democracy.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - Old Hickory

In response to Old Hickory posted by pink101:

Agree with Pink. Jackson was one of our most influential Presidents. If I were ranking Presidents according to their degree of influence in shaping the course of American history (regardless of my personal feelings), I'd put Andy Jackson in the Top 10 definitely. Maybe Top Five.

Like Pink said, Jackson was extremely influential in expanding our understanding and application of the concept of democracy.

But, in light of his bigotry and harshness toward the Indians, he's not my personal favorite.

Personally, I'd take him off the $20 and replace him with FDR or Reagan.

» JohnCrandall - Old Hickory

In response to Old Hickory posted by BrianTubbs:

FDR or Reagan on the $20 bill? I doubt Jackson will lose his place there, although he does suffer extremely in modern historiography compared to his treatment by Historians of previous generations. I'm personally somewhat surprised that you like both FDR and Reagan, because they are almost opposites in many ways. What do you guys think of Teddy Roosevelt?

-- posted by JohnCrandall

» pink101 - The Rough Rider

In response to Old Hickory posted by JohnCrandall:

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I'm no expert on presidents.
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He was a macho guy and used war to increase his power in office just like Bush has done. I think the Bush family was strongly influenced by some of TR's writing regarding his beliefs in how to get the nation behind the president--start a war,
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He was a rough rider.
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-- posted by pink101

» Brian Tubbs - The Rough Rider

In response to The Rough Rider posted by pink101:

The anti-war Left is no fan of TR, and with good reason. But they (and I think Pink as well) fail to understand the dynamics confronting the United States at the close of the 1800s and dawn of the 20th century.

The United States had a choice to make. It was a simple choice. Become a world power OR be left behind. If America chose the latter, it could've kept its hands cleaner and its conscience purer. For a time anyway.

But the price of being left behind would have potentially be catastrophic in the long run. The European powers, including Britain and Germany, were aggressively competing in their quest for large empires and vibrant war machines.

TR understood that the USA needed to do the same in order to give teeth to the Monroe Doctrine - and keep Europe out of the Americas!!

Had the United States NOT:

*fought the Spanish-American War
*built up its military (incl the Great White Fleet)
*engaged AGGRESSIVELY in the Industrial Age (incl Big Business and all that)
*and built the Panama Canal

--then the USA would've been impotent to stop European encroachment in the Americas and would have been a bystander (at BEST) to the pivotal events of the 20th century - including the world wars and the Cold War.

So, speaking for myself, I'm glad we had TR as our President!

» Brian Tubbs - $20 bill

In response to Old Hickory posted by JohnCrandall:

I doubt Jackson will lose his place there, although he does suffer extremely in modern historiography compared to his treatment by Historians of previous generations.

There WAS a movement a while back (which I opposed) to put Ronald Reagan on the $10 bill. (I love Reagan, but I was against dumping one of our Founding Fathers from our currency).

I doubt Jackson will be deposed anytime soon, but you never know. If some of our Indian tribes and nations in America banded together and campaigned for Jackson's removal, I dare say that the Democrats would cave pretty quickly. And the Republicans would happily go along - if Reagan was the one to replace him. In other words...given the right combinations...it could be done.

p.s. Remember that Ronald Reagan was a DEMOCRAT during FDR's day. I don't think FDR and Reagan are all that different. Reagan broke with the Democrats during LBJ's day. The Democratic Party changed dramatically in the 1960s - and not in a good way, in Reagan's mind (or mine).

» pink101 - A Big Stick

In response to The Rough Rider posted by BrianTubbs:
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Well, the old Bull Moose gave us the idea of walking softly while carrying a big stick.
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That was good advice and much better that spouting off at the mouth with a short stick.
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Whatever the Moose did back then, his influence on us as a people right now is that his strategies have given George W. Bush as well as his father some ideas about gaining popularity in the voters' eyes. And, frankly, both the elder Bush and his son used war to bolster their position in the public eye. I'm not so sure it worked all that well for the elder when it came to election time. It seems he lost his resolve and held back. The whelp Bush seems to think he learned from that error; but, in the end, he too will fail. Our society is pretty strong and it will survive this time of tribulation.
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Two things that George W. Bush has done much to his great discredit in my mind. #1. Started a war to bolster his popularity--it worked; and #2. Turned our government into a military dominated authority which gives the executive branch extraordinary powers--it will fail.
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-- posted by pink101

» pink101 - Had The United States Not

In response to The Rough Rider posted by BrianTubbs:

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Had the United States NOT:
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You might be right on that matter and especially so if we consider the perspective of empire. But, there may be other ways of looking at reality. Do you think?
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Sometimes, people get going down a wrong road and don't know enough to turn around. That's how so many people end up in divorce court in today's society. One person says something and the other jumps down their throat and before they know it, all hell is to pay. The family is destroyed. All because an ugly word was spoken.
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Wars start that way and big business is right there more than willing to supply the weaponry.
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To both sides.
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-- posted by pink101

» JohnCrandall - Had The United States Not

In response to Had The United States Not posted by pink101:

Before TR was a President he wrote a book on naval history. He did believe that America needed a strong navy to defend this hemisphere, and he was a veteran who fought with the rough riders. He had some very admirable characteristics, but a tendency to be too pushy, too sure of himself, and too macho. The last led to his lasting illness after his Amazon trip. Whatever else he was, he was quite a character. I don't necessarily see him as pro big business. To be overtly so in the "progressive era" would have been very unpopular, and it is certainly against his "trust buster" reputation, although behind the scenes things may have been different.

-- posted by JohnCrandall

» JohnCrandall - $20 bill

In response to $20 bill posted by BrianTubbs:

Yeah, maybe you're right if there was a conjunction of circumstances Reagan might have a chance of getting on the 20, although he is probably far too recent a President to win that honor. As far as his similarty/disimilarity to FDR, I'd have to say I see the two as ideologically opposed (although Reagan's agenda is not what the rest of his party seems to believe in today). Reagan wanted to reduce Federal and Presidential Power, and especially taxation, and return to America's "limited government" roots. FDR, on the other hand, with his then record number of executive orders, court packing plan, restructuring of the income tax, big bureau style, and New Deal policies in general is actually the one who set "big government" in place.

-- posted by JohnCrandall